For Science Students

[teachyourself]

the available body of facts: that this universe did not come into existence by mere coincidence 2. Everything was created out of nothing but not on its own rather God made it happen, there matter time and space came into existence 3. there is no other sensible option 4. you yourself is a proof of God

religious people as well as the scientific through evidence came to believe in God, there should'nt even be a question there is a God or no God...its just so obvious.

what you state here is an ontological argument

there is no proof for the "god made it happen" part, only an ontological argument

and when you state "there is no other sensible option" this is the very mind set that is based upon validation: self and social, there does not need to be an end solution, i am perfectly comfortable with not knowing and learning at the same time

why does it make people so uncomfortable, is beyond me, so much so that they MUST have a solution here and now in their life time, is it that not having a god/gods would make their life meaningless? if so, then make your own purpose for your own life decide for yourself, use your mental faculties for doing good without anyone else telling you what is good or bad, it is not really that difficult

and logic does not settle problems in science, evidence does

religious people as well as the scientific through evidence came to believe in God, there should'nt even be a question there is a God or no God...its just so obvious.

i used to think like this as well

actually belief in god/gods started with the stars .. read the material in message #181, read/watch all the material then come to your OWN decision

who cares what i think or what anyone else thinks or what some so called "holy book" says, think for yourself and don't follow dogma

So did u know in the beginning
God extracted all of Adam’s descendants who were yet to be born, generation after generation, spread them out, and took a covenant from them. He addressed their souls directly, making them bear witness that He was their Lord. Since God made all human beings swear to His Lordship when He created Adam, this oath is imprinted on the human soul even before it enters the fetus, and so a child is born with a natural belief in the Oneness of God. This natural belief is called fitra in Arabic.
Consequently, every person carries the seed of belief in the Oneness of God that lies deeply buried under layers of negligence and dampened by social conditioning. If the child were left alone, it would grow up conscious of God — a single Creator — but all children are affected by their environment. The Prophet of God said, “Each child is born in a state of ‘fitra,’ but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian. It is like the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any young born mutilated before you mutilate them?” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

hahahaha... this is not evidence .. these are claims

 

[teachyourself]

The Prophet's message was clear on this he said " Do not hit the female slave of Allah" either it be a wife or any other women
and in the farewell sermon, addressing the crowd the he said "O people! it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you.If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to fed and clothed in kindness.Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers"
He always spoke highly of women and never in his lifetime he hit his wives
if you have problem regarding verse 34 in chp 4(the women) in the Quran then u should listen to Ustad Nouman Ali khan. He comprehensively explains the meaning of this verse with regard to its context , which many others had failed to explain

the problem over here is the same, who is correct? the strict mullah or some other liberal guy, whose version of islam is correct? muslims need to decide, so his points of view are irrelevant until and unless he is a formal authority on the subject who can make a legislative difference, i do not agree with his views: women/men are different, women don't have to provide, men need to take care of women, men are responsible for the piety of women, the limits of hitting in case of losing your composure due to fedility (hitting shouldn't be there in the first place - and emotional control needs to be encouraged), women forget a lot??, women being unfamiliar with business contracts (this should have been made a sin, so that women would be encouraged to look into business contracts), women should listen because men provide (how about let the woman be financially independent and then both discuss their issues as true equals, ever seen a guy with a girl physically and financially his equal? of-course you haven't, the humility a guy shows in that case is quite refreshing and it is just a matter of training), etc

all this guy has done is try to reinforce social stereotypes and/or his biases, in my experience i have seen women who are more impatient to buy stuff, so should i say all women are like that?, nope, it varies from individual to individual, generalizations cannot be made

the problem with this primitive approach towards women in islam (based upon a primitive social norms) is that it just increases the dependence of women and encourages them to stay at home, there can be no greater disservice to an individual/group

and wife beating is just one issue, the other issues i mentioned in message # 183 and several times earlier, I disagree with islam's position on those issues as well, so my position is basically based upon educating people in facts rather than holy books, getting them trained enough to be able to think about and deal with social issues and think for themselves, in other words relying on independent thought

 

[badrobot14]

ofcourse i know the meaning i have read the tafsirs, i never quote anything without understanding it first as is evident with the relevant evidence i have always presented, and out of context??? go read the tafsirs it is very simple/clear and then realize your error

i do not argue for the sake of it, i argue baseless claims forwarded as science without any evidence



well, when you are wrong you are wrong, this isn't a negotiation you kids have with your parents and teachers, this is a matter of giving evidence for your claims, just because the evidence supports what i say because i say what the evidence before me instructs, doesn't mean that my judgement is flawed

not ready to explore?? if i was not ready to explore then i would not have read the quran to see if it was wrong, i would have never bothered with it, in-fact if i would not have preferred to explore i would not have replied to anyone in the first place

and your point of view or mine does not matter, grow up, it is evidence that dictates



when have i imposed? all i have said time and again that a claim is not justified when it is not justified, i have never told anyone you MUST do this or your must do that, in cases where i have said that opening your mind and questioning everything is for your own good, in that case it is a suggestion NOT an instruction that dictates



you never asked but the statement you made was unjustified and i gave evidence to point out why it was so



if you do not have the time that is your problem, do your own work

so arguments with evidence are baseless and childish? really??

and the statement that i made about people at work places and umniversties sounding you off, it was NOT specifically for this argument at other venues, it was about your lack of research;/evidence regarding your statements in general because when you or anyone makes claims, they simply say "put up or shut up", a simple example when Robert Hooke was trying to claim that the Law of Gravity/Motion of the planetswas his idea and that Newton had stolen it, he was told to bring in the calculations (the Calculus we all studied at school) to support his claim which he failed to do and thus, he was rejected in that regard





i am not over here to come to a conclusion with anyone, i have come over here to provoke thought, give evidence and to leave the conclusions to you, that is what true exploration of ideas is about to let people come to their own conclusions on their own ... no one ever did that for me and seeing from your arguments upon baseless claims it seems that no one has bothered to challenge your thoughts but your teachers have just made your regurgitate facts and answer exam questions like a robot and nor do they encourage you to challenge them, infact in my experience whenever i challenged my teachers they thought of it as an insult

well than u simply lack understanding of what it said...

lol...

ahan us kids...? I see you must be pretty smart.. LOL

ok you actually made me laugh... your statement "if i was not ready to explore then i would not have read the quran to see if it was wrong"... PROVES the Quran... how cool is that?
Allah s.w.t tells us about the Quran... "He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient," (2:26)
so basically, when opening the Quran your lens was not to get guided or at least to look for direction in life... all you got was what you had in mind... as was already in the Quran.... our creator always knows us

if ur point of view doesnt matter... why are you posting it here when we are tired of listening to it? not one person here says they agree with you.. yet u go on and on... do something productive with life...

and we didnt say you must to anything do why the fuss?

 

[badrobot14]

After being sick and tired of this thread continue aimlessly upon argument, that has already been answered by more capable people in more convincing ways, I feel that our policy on threads going off topic and argumentation... needs to be exercised.....

for the reason the thread has been closed.... please put your efforts in more productive things...

for those genuinely looking for answers to (most of the) questions raised here... please refer to the document attached... thanks...