i love my mom and dad

[AlphaCentauri]

badrobot14,

I have watched the video. He talked about "umma" and "waalidein", that sort of enlightened things a bit. Should have mercy for your waalidein (those who gave you birth) no matter how hard they've been with you. But then, what about when they are still harming you and you have to protect yourself from the harm?

In the rest of the video, he keeps talking about how good parents are. He says ask Allah to "have mercy on them just like they had mercy on me". How do I take it that includes the bad parents I mentioned in my previous posts? The analogy he gives about the crow story is one that would suit a 'common' family as we know it-- what about the extreme cases?

I mean, I know Islam has the protection of the institution of family at heart. To avoid female-bias, women have certain rights in marriage, and a man is not allowed to marry if he cannot provide for the wife. We've seen the rights of parents already. Are there some rights for children? I didn't find that anywhere except in the comments people made. Should parents who cannot care for children be allowed to reproduce and multiply?

Interesting, he talked about the prenatal phase for mothers and how they take care of their babies before even they are born. That appealed to me for we now have the foeticide phenomenon, i.e. the killing of foetuses/ babies before birth. Any reservation about that?

I'm sorry for the trouble... You must be telling yourself "ye larki kitne sawal puchti hain". Religious criminology and penalty is something I do have keen interest in. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to find loopholes in religions, am trying to find solutions to existing problems. Solutions that are acceptable to religious societies rather than secular ones.

And forgive me for the 'grumbling' in my previous post. Once I find something disturbing and I've grabbed it, rest moves on a wheel.

 

[badrobot14]

AlphaCentauri m gonna reply, insha'Allah, using my limited small knowledge... I hope they would be convincing... b/w your questions are most welcome...

 

[AlphaCentauri]

AlphaCentauri m gonna reply, insha'Allah, using my limited small knowledge... I hope they would be convincing... b/w your questions are most welcome...

Thank you. And no worries. Knowledge is far from being perfect, I just want to increase mine.
Take your time.


But not 3-4 months please.

 

[AlphaCentauri]

I think we should behave kindly with our parents, respect and obey them as much as we can. This is as far as the quran tells us to do in general- be kind to them, especially when they reach old age (6:151,17:23).

But there is a limit to this. We are in no way mandated to follow their ways or what they instruct us to do in case they mislead us (29:8). In fact, our religion encourages us to think for ourselves, use reason in everything (17:36). It specifically tells us to question the traditions of our parents and forefathers if it goes against our own reason, research and understanding (5:104, 37:69, 4:135, 58:22, 31:21, 12:40, 9:23, 7:70-71 ).

Obviously if our parents are evil-doers, this is a different situation. Just like Abraham, who according to quran, defied his parent's traditions and went against them when it did not go according to his rational monotheistic reasoning.

The quran, unlike other (false) religious sources, is intelligent as it comes from God himself.

Cheers

Thank you for providing the ayah. I'll check them soon.

 

[badrobot14]

"even if that leads to his being shamed or imprisoned."

So, that does mean harming him, doesn't it?
......
.

The first thing I said after I read the last line of your post was Alhamdulillah that I’m a Muslim... coz when you know the reality of this life then its easy to make sense of such stuff. Secondly, you really need to get in touch with Quran as it provides guidance for ur questions and also on how to deal with such situations.. and by in touch I mean at least a tafseer study… at least of juzz Amma+surah fatiha.

Yes, it does mean harming him in that sense coz it’s a necessity and it would be a really hard test of a person... I found it saddening so I said so, doesn’t mean I run away from life and its realities.

And about parents, well you gotta face it very few parents are like that.

‘not every parent does good’
I’ll tackle that using one of my favourite stories in the Quran, that of Yusuf (A.S): Now the parent here is awesome (in fact the child loves his dad so much he even confides his dream to his dad... what child does that? Children usually go to mom for sharing dreams), but the one doing injustice are the child’s own brothers! The decide to kill him just coz dad loves him more... then they go light on him and kept him in a well telling dad that a wolf ate him... then they sold him as a SLAVE to a caravan (“Yusuf's own brothers sold him”-tafsir Ibn katheer) that also for a petty price. He is in a new land where a man buys him and keeps him... “And thus, We established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events.” at this point it’s so awesome that Allah (S.W.T) tells us ‘..wallahu ghalibunAAala amrihi walakinna akthara annasila yaAAlamoon’ “...And Allah is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.” Meaning whatever that was happening to this child, no matter how odd or harsh it may seem Allah was in full control of the situation. Think if you heard of this incident- a child lost and then sold like that it’ll tear you heart... but even then know that Allah is in control of situation, he gave the child a place to live and a kind master who said ‘Make his residence comfortable’ and gave relief from his brothers. Later you find truly how dominant Allah is on affairs when He gives Yusuf Prophet-hood and such power in land. It’s true most of us don’t know, if something happens we complain we are narrow minded, we don’t know what’s gonna happen 10 steps ahead but Allah has planned it and decreed it.

But suffering of Yusuf (A.S) hasn’t ended; he gets thrown in a prison for many years for being righteous and not committing fornication... A normal person will pin that on his brothers, they threw him in the well, they are responsible for all the suffering he got and you find at the end when this great man sees his brothers in a poor state while he is (a minister) in power who can punish them yet he tells them that ‘I am Yusuf’, then in response to all that suffering he says "No blame will there be upon you today. Allah will forgive you; and He is the most merciful of the merciful." (12:92) He forgives them for Allah.

When he is reunited with his parents, this is what happens:“"O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality. And He was certainly good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you [here] from bedouin life after Satan had induced [estrangement] between me and my brothers. Indeed, my Lord is Subtle in what He wills. Indeed, it is He who is the Knowing, the Wise. My Lord, You have given me [something] of sovereignty and taught me of the interpretation of dreams. Creator of the heavens and earth, You are my protector in this world and in the Hereafter. Cause me to die a Muslim and join me with the righteous."” (12:100-101)

This is a great example of how someone reciprocates evil with good hoping for a reward from Allah.

You mentioned psychological abuse, Firaun’s wife, may Allah be pleased with her, had to go through this coz she is married to a tyrant, I mean this guy kills babies every next year... and Allah quotes her beautiful dua “"My Lord, build for me near You a house in Paradise and save me from Pharaoh and his deeds and save me from the wrongdoing people."” (66:11) Notice she also hopes for respite, but from Allah. And we know no one can reward the patient, but Allah. Allah would compensate her for all that she had to suffer. So you are wrong about “no source of comfort for these unfortunate innocents” coz Allah is their source of comfort... and Allah tells us in Quran that He does NOT burden a soul except within its capacity (see 2:286) so if someone gets such trials Allah knows their limit (I have seen living example of this). Also, “If Allah Loves a people, He tests them.”(Tirmidhi, hasan)

When you realize the fact that this life is a test from Allah “Blessed is He in whose hand is dominion, and He is over all things competent -[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving -”(67:1-2), it helps to be patient and whatever stuff is out of your hands you follow advice of Prophet(S.A.W): “Strive to do that which will benefit you and seek the help of Allaah. Do not feel helpless and if anything befalls you, do not say ‘If only I had done such and such.’ Rather say, ‘Qadar Allaah wa ma sha’a kaan (The decree of Allaah and whatever He wills happens).’ For (the words) ‘If only’open the door to the Shaytaan.” – (Sahih Muslim)

‘What about those parents who are out there literally killing poor innocent children?’
I’d like to tackle that by telling you how I deal with the oppression I see (but can’t do anything about)... I go and take refuge in Surah Takwir... Oh, its so beautiful... Allah starts that surah by describing what’s gonna happen on day of judgment... ‘When the sun is wrapped up [in darkness] And when the stars fall, dispersing, And when the mountains are removed’... (it’s tafseer is so beautiful) and in the middle of this description He(S.W.T) says "And when the female (infant) buried alive (as the pagan Arabs used to do) shall be questioned. For what sin she was killed? "(81:8-9))

It’s remarkable that Allah mentioned this as a description of that day so this is one of the first things to happen, and scholars say oppressed will be dealt with first on that day as they had been waiting for it... and the cool thing is this practice of nobles of Arabs killing their daughters as they thought it was a sign of weak manhood, no one will question it or object to it and Allah questions it! Also in this world if such a trial was to take place in court you will need a witness as the victim is dead and witness can’t know what the victim had to go through even if he saw it but Allah questions the Victim who had to suffer! And tafsir Ibn Kathir mentions “she will demand restitution for her blood”.

Since Quran is the word of Allah (and we have no shortage of proof for that ), this is bound to happen... We know for a fact that justice will be served. You become hopeless if you know the criminal got away, but as Quran says at another place “Or do those who do evil deeds think they can outrun Us? Evil is what they judge.” (29:4)
[One thing I can’t convey to you is how beautiful those words really are, Arabic language teachers explain it so beautifully that you are more and more certain that no human can even dream of writing something even close to this. It serves as further proof for validity of Quran.]

Also notice how this burring the infant girls, is a Kafir problem... a muslim can’t do this... yet Islam speaks against it! You’ll always find Islam against injustice on earth. So parents who kill or are unjust we do speak against that act of theirs and they will be questioned for it…

‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (S.A.W) say: ‘Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The imaam is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock. A man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock. A woman is the shepherd of her husband’s house and is responsible for her flock. A servant is the shepherd of his master’s wealth and is responsible for his flock.’ I think that he said, ‘A man is the shepherd of his father’s wealth and is responsible for his flock. Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 853; Muslim, 1829)

Material you should see/hear/read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gY30WLqnhE


http://www.archive.org/download/ExplainationOfSurahFatihaByBr.NaumanKhan/Surah-Fatiha-Points-to-Ponder-Br-Nauman-Khan_vbr.mp3

http://muslimmatters.org/2012/08/02/al-hakeem-heal-through-wisdom/

 

[badrobot14]

badrobot14,

I have watched the video. He talked about "umma" and "waalidein", that sort of enlightened things a bit. Should have mercy for your waalidein (those who gave you birth) no matter how hard they've been with you. But then, what about when they are still harming you and you have to protect yourself from the harm?

In the rest of the video, he keeps talking about how good parents are. He says ask Allah to "have mercy on them just like they had mercy on me". How do I take it that includes the bad parents I mentioned in my previous posts? The analogy he gives about the crow story is one that would suit a 'common' family as we know it-- what about the extreme cases?

I mean, I know Islam has the protection of the institution of family at heart. To avoid female-bias, women have certain rights in marriage, and a man is not allowed to marry if he cannot provide for the wife. We've seen the rights of parents already. Are there some rights for children? I didn't find that anywhere except in the comments people made. Should parents who cannot care for children be allowed to reproduce and multiply?

Interesting, he talked about the prenatal phase for mothers and how they take care of their babies before even they are born. That appealed to me for we now have the foeticide phenomenon, i.e. the killing of foetuses/ babies before birth. Any reservation about that?

I'm sorry for the trouble... You must be telling yourself "ye larki kitne sawal puchti hain". Religious criminology and penalty is something I do have keen interest in. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to find loopholes in religions, am trying to find solutions to existing problems. Solutions that are acceptable to religious societies rather than secular ones.

And forgive me for the 'grumbling' in my previous post. Once I find something disturbing and I've grabbed it, rest moves on a wheel.

“Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."” (6:151)

Yes, there are rights of children in Islam obviously, as I mentioned each of us is a shepherd… plus The Messenger of Allaah (S.A.W) said, according to a hadeeth narrated by ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar, “… and your child has rights over you.” Muslim, 1159.

Messenger of Allaah (S.A.W) said: “It is sufficient sin for a man if he neglects those on whom he is obliged to spend.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1692

‘Aa’ishah the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: A woman came to me with two daughters and asked me for food, and I could not find anything except one date which I gave to her. She shared it between her two daughters, then she got up and went out. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came in and I told him what had happened. He said: “Whoever is in charge of any of these girls and treats them well, they will be a shield for him against the Fire.” Bukhaari, 5649; Muslim, 2629

Parents should even be treating children fairly, Prophet (S.A.W) said “Fear Allaah and treat your children fairly.” (Bukhaari, 2447; Muslim, 1623).

And you want to know the height of this mercy that we are supposed to show towards children? Here is one of my favourite ahadith:

"The Prophet of Allah (S.A.W) kissed Hasan ibn 'Ali while Aqra' ibn Habis was sitting nearby. Aqra' said, 'I have ten children and have never kissed one of them.' The Prophet (S.A.W) looked at him and said, 'Those who show no mercy will be shown no mercy.'" [Bukhari]

(Although, parents are allowed to beat their children lightly to discipline them as far as I know… our Deen always has balance.)

And feticide is a fiqh issue, I don’t have much knowledge about it, although there is a hadith which tells us after how many months does the rooh/soul gets blown by an angel into the fetus… so even if for some reason/complication it has to be allowed scholars keep that in mind… if I remember right aborting after that time counts as murder… Allah knows best.

[If you wanted me to give a ruling at what punishment the women who killed her child deserves, then I’m not a scholar or a judge to pass the judgment… but I think it might be the capital punishment. What I love about punishments in Islam is that they are a true deterrent…]

P.S. Remember one thing, we expect reward from Allah when we do good to someone who harmed us… or we don’t harm them back… “So whatever thing you have been given - it is but [for] enjoyment of the worldly life. But what is with Allah is better and more lasting for those who have believed and upon their Lord rely And those who avoid the major sins and immoralities, and when they are angry, they forgive,And those who have responded to their lord and established prayer and whose affair is [determined by] consultation among themselves, and from what We have provided them, they spend.And those who, when tyranny strikes them, they defend themselves,And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it, but whoever pardons and makes reconciliation - his reward is [due] from Allah . Indeed, He does not like wrongdoers.” (42:36-40)

 

[N.M]

And feticide is a fiqh issue, I don’t have much knowledge about it, although there is a hadith which tells us after how many months does the rooh/soul gets blown by an angel into the fetus… so even if for some reason/complication it has to be allowed scholars keep that in mind… if I remember right aborting after that time counts as murder… Allah knows best.

AsSalamu Alaikum wr wb,

According to my very limited knowledge, It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy at any stage unless there is a legitimate reason, and within very precise limits.

We are students of knowledge till death, InshaAllah.
Found a ruling on it in reply to the question
What is the ruling on aborting a pregnancy in the early months (1-3) before the soul is breathed into the foetus?.
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/42321
it will benefit us all InshaAllah...

 

[badrobot14]

AsSalamu Alaikum wr wb,

According to my very limited knowledge, It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy at any stage unless there is a legitimate reason, and within very precise limits.

We are students of knowledge till death, InshaAllah.
Found a ruling on it in reply to the question
What is the ruling on aborting a pregnancy in the early months (1-3) before the soul is breathed into the foetus?.
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/42321
it will benefit us all InshaAllah...

yes... that's what I meant too.. that's y I mentioned complication... coz I remembered it was something like that....

 

[Myste Rious]

Especially @ AngelicBeauty thank you so much for sharing this valuable video. I just couldn't help my tears. Still unable to stop the tears! This video is really touching. And it gives the a very good message indeed.
Our parents have always sacrificed so much for us and they always tried their best to fulfill our wishes, no matter what it is. I believe that on our side, when our turn comes, we should do our best to keep them happy. We should always be sorry even though if we had hurt our parents unintentionally. May Allah forgive us for that!
There may be many children who had already lost their parents, but we've our parents with us and we should thank Allah for that, as Allah has given us one of my most valuable gifts ever.
May Allah give our parents all the happiness they deserve and also answer all their prayers! Aameen!

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Borakk, badrobot14, thank you for the replies.

Thank you for the ayah Borakk. Exactly what I was referring to.


"O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." [An-Nisa 4:35]

Justice and how a theocracy would deal with it.

Robotji, I do know the Quran advocates mercy, forgiveness, calmness, patience, benevolence, consideration, and all the virtues of humankind. That is how the victim will view his trials. Good enough, it will lessen psychological trauma. But what I meant to ask is what the law would do, or should do, in such situations. In my country, where the Court is secular, i.e. free from all religious influences and that's understandable since it's a multicultural society, it will deal with such cases by appealing to the Human Rights. But what about those countries where religion is the law? What are you supposed to do when you are seeing a parent committing injustice to his children and they seek help apart from consoling the child and telling him to be patient and forgiving, etc, and when simply talking to the parents doesn't help? Yes of course, perpetrators will be judged on the Day of Resurrection, but that doesn't mean our societies should be immune to crimes.

Okay... you will tell me you are not a judge. I am not a judge either. But insha Allah, if I live long enough and develop the capabilities fully, I do want to exercise profession in this field. I do think it takes collaboration from every member of society to lessen, if not eradicate, the evils in it. So even if such cases do not have a high probability of occurring though they sure are in considerable absolute numbers, they are there.

Anyway, I found this concerning female infanticide, which might be close to foeticide:


He hides himself from the people because of the evil of that whereof he has been informed. Shall he keep her with dishonour or bury her in the earth(female infanticide)? Certainly, evil is their decision. Sura An-Nahl:59 (16:59)

And this concerning killing a believer (though no mention of the believer being wrong, so I cannot say if it's specifically for capital punishment since there is also an ayah advocating 'eye for eye', the law of retaliation, I do take it that for a child towards his parents the treatment would be different, but there is also a criminal court against the parents):

It is not for a believer to kill a believer except (that it be) by mistake; and whosoever kills a believer by mistake, (it is ordained that) he must set free a believing slave and a compensation (blood-money, i.e. Diya) be given to the deceased’s family unless they remit it. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (is prescribed); and if he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, compensation (blood-money - Diya) must be paid to his family, and a believing slave must be freed. And who so finds this (the penance of freeing a slave) beyond his means, he must fast for two consecutive months in order to seek repentance from Allâh. And Allâh is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise. Sura An-Nisa:92 (4:92)

Lemme precise, where there is no sort of atonement either:

Al-Shura Chapter 42 : Verse 40 "And the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and his act brings about reformation, his reward is with Allah. Surely, He loves not the wrongdoers."

‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (S.A.W) say: ‘Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The imaam is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock. A man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock. A woman is the shepherd of her husband’s house and is responsible for her flock. A servant is the shepherd of his master’s wealth and is responsible for his flock.’ I think that he said, ‘A man is the shepherd of his father’s wealth and is responsible for his flock. Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 853; Muslim, 1829)

Yes, I'd read this, it is one of my favourites. And all that you mentioned below follows that children do have rights. I've heard some parents say "my rights over my children are greater than their rights over me" and "I gave them birth, so whatever I do with them is nobody's problem". Surely, such 'viewpoints' would stir controversy? This is a never-ending debate whenever two categories have rights over each other.

If it's too much of law, then it's okay. I understand it's a bit too much of an entanglement. :/
Anyway, time to concentrate on the last days of Ramadan now. We talk about this later at leisure.

 

[AlphaCentauri]

AsSalamu Alaikum wr wb,

According to my very limited knowledge, It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy at any stage unless there is a legitimate reason, and within very precise limits.

We are students of knowledge till death, InshaAllah.
Found a ruling on it in reply to the question
What is the ruling on aborting a pregnancy in the early months (1-3) before the soul is breathed into the foetus?.
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/42321
it will benefit us all InshaAllah...

2 – If the pregnancy is in the first stage, which is a period of forty days, and aborting it serves a legitimate purpose or will ward off harm, then it is permissible to abort it. But aborting it at this stage for fear of the difficulty of raising children or of being unable to bear the costs of maintaining and educating them, or for fear for their future or because the couple feel that they have enough children – this is not permissible.

Yes, what I was saying, it's not permissible. Then, if it's not permissible, what should be the ruling in such cases? You get what I wish to convey, yeah?

 

[AlphaCentauri]

By the way, I found this. If my knowledge hasn't depreciated, I think the mosque they are talking about is the Babri mosque?

What Does Islam Teach About Justice? Neither love nor hatred can be allowed to compromise justice.
By Khalid Baig

There is one word that captures the essence of all Islamic laws and all Islamic teachings; one word that describes the overriding value that permeates all Islamic values. Justice. The Qur'an says: "We sent aforetime our messengers with clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance, that men may stand forth in Justice." [Al-Hadeed 57:25].

The sole purpose of sending the prophets was to establish Justice in the world and end injustice. Broadly speaking, doing justice means giving everyone his due. But this simple statement camouflages all the complexities of life in their myriad and ever-changing relations; all the temptations; all the apprehensions and concerns; all the conflicts and dilemmas. To guide the people, Allah sent down the prophets with clear signs, the Book, and the Balance. The Book contains the revelations that spell out what's fair and unfair or right and wrong. The Balance refers to our ability to measure and calculate so we can follow the path shown by the Book and explained by the Prophets.

Together these sources taught us what are the rights of Allah, of other people, and of our own persons on us and how to balance them. A life lived in obedience to Allah, then, is a continuous balancing act, both individually and collectively.

Under normal circumstances many people can be just. But Islam commands its followers to be just even in the face of strong conflicting emotions. In dealing with other human beings, two major impediments to justice are love and hatred. See how the Qur'an teaches us to overcome the first impediment when we are dealing with our closest relatives or even ourselves. "O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." [An-Nisa 4:35]

Here is the resolution from the Qur'an of the perennial conflict between self-interest and justice. Be just, even if it is against your narrowly defined self-interest or of those very close to you. Ignorant people think they are protecting their self-interest by being unjust to others. Their decision to be just or unjust may be based on a cold calculation of self-interest. But real faith in Allah elevates one beyond that narrow-mindedness. These verses remind us that the real protector of interests of all people is also Allah and He will protect us when we follow His command to be just. The justice demanded by Islam permits no favoritism.

The other equally potent impediment is hatred. Here again Qur'an commands: "O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." [Al-Maidah 5:8]

In other words you cannot do injustice even when you are dealing with the enemy. The natural, uneducated, and uncivilized tendency is to treat the enemy as less than a human being; one who has no rights and deserves no justice or fairness. It was as true in the pre-Islamic tribal jahilya (based on ignorance) society as it is today. See how Islam directly curbs it. It is a command to the believers, with a reminder that Allah is watching you, that enmity of others cannot be used as an excuse for committing injustices against them.

Justice does require retribution and Islam does call for, "an eye for an eye." But it does not mean an innocent eye for an innocent eye; it means the eye of the perpetrator for the eye of the victim. It is amazing how those who call the latter as barbaric, actually rally for the former when a real crisis develops.

Fourteen hundred years ago these commands created a society where rich and poor, friend and foe, Muslim and non-Muslim, the ruler and the ruled, were all treated equally and all of them could count on receiving justice. The qazis (judges) were independent and no one, including the khalifah was above the law. If a dispute arose between the Khalifah and an ordinary person, both had to appear in court and provide their evidence. Islamic history is full of stories of this justice that filled the earth wherever Muslims ruled in their golden era.

Even during their period of decline, we find sporadic incidents that are just unparalleled. One example from recent history may suffice here. During the British Rule in India, once a dispute arose between Hindus and Muslims over a piece of land. Hindus claimed it belonged to a temple while Muslims claimed it to be mosque. Emotions were high on both sides and the possibility of a riot was real. The English judge could not find any means of ascertaining the truth. It was one group's words against the other's. Finally the Judge asked both groups if they could trust the testimony of any person. They could. It was a particular Muslim imam (religious leader) who was known for his piety. The person was requested to come to the court as a witness in a very charged atmosphere, with the entire community urging him to help them win the case through his testimony. His testimony was brief. "The Hindus are right," he said. "The Muslim case is baseless." He had not betrayed the community. He had once more affirmed its unflinching commitment to truth and justice above all else.

That is the justice the world needs today.

"Allah doth command you to render back your Trusts to those to whom they are due; and when ye judge between man and man, that ye judge with justice: verily how excellent is the teaching which He gives you! For Allah is He Who hears and sees all things." [An-Nisa 4:58]
Taken from Al-Balagh online newsmagazine with permission.

http://soundvision.com/info/peace/justice.asp

AngelicBeauty, my apologies. Your thread about parents is beautiful. Because of my extreme queries, it has become a panel. Hope you didn't mind it.

 

[N.M]

Yes, what I was saying, it's not permissible. Then, if it's not permissible, what should be the ruling in such cases? You get what I wish to convey, yeah?

Sorry but i didnt get ur question.
which cases are you referring to?

 

[badrobot14]

Religious theocracy, like the bygone "Khilafah", Saudi/Iranian Mullahism/fanaticism is not at all reconcilable with the only source of religious law in Islam - Quran.

Quran advocates a federally secular form of state - the "natural republic". This article discusses it with good quranic references: http://www.free-minds.org/natural-republic

I hope I made it clear.

Er.. I'm a bit surprized that you say Quran advocates " federally secular form of state"do you know the meaning of word 'secular'...???
it means "Denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis" and wikipedia says "Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs." so it means religion is a personal thing and it has no role in community... Nation makes whatever law they want, be it by common concensus (democracy) or on whims of a person (a king).... they do what they want and religion is just what's in mosque or in chuch...
how on earth can Islam/Quran advocate that...?? when it has so many aayhas on state laws.. how justice should be served (+ punishments), what to do when someone breaks a treaty with you.... laws on inheritance...

Even the word Islam, means to submit (to what Prophet Muhammad S.A..W brought).. and Allah always calls Islam 'Deen' (not madhab)... deen is a system (includes religious aspects but is more), a way of life; not a religion.... and Islam as a Deen/system wants to be dominant.... Allah tells us "It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion(DEEN) of truth to manifest it over all religion(DEEN), although those who associate others with Allah dislike it." (61:9)
I chose to write 'deen' in the translation coz that is the word used in Quran... (Translations are shalow, what can I do...) If you want proof see Surah Yusuf, Quran uses this word DEEN there (Deenil malik) and translations there will say 'law of king' (check ur self: 12:76) coz really deen includes the system of government.
Islam being a Deen/system logically can't blend into secularism... which says government affairs are seperate from religion(as we saw in definition above).

 

[ShadowSnipa17]

Er.. I'm a bit surprized that you say Quran advocates " federally secular form of state"do you know the meaning of word 'secular'...???
it means "Denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis" and wikipedia says "Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs." so it means religion is a personal thing and it has no role in community... Nation makes whatever law they want, be it by common concensus (democracy) or on whims of a person (a king).... they do what they want and religion is just what's in mosque or in chuch...
how on earth can Islam/Quran advocate that...?? when it has so many aayhas on state laws.. how justice should be served (+ punishments), what to do when someone breaks a treaty with you.... laws on inheritance...

Even the word Islam, means to submit (to what Prophet Muhammad S.A..W brought).. and Allah always calls Islam 'Deen' (not madhab)... deen is a system (includes religious aspects but is more), a way of life; not a religion.... and Islam as a Deen/system wants to be dominant.... Allah tells us "It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion(DEEN) of truth to manifest it over all religion(DEEN), although those who associate others with Allah dislike it." (61:9)
I chose to write 'deen' in the translation coz that is the word used in Quran... (Translations are shalow, what can I do...) If you want proof see Surah Yusuf, Quran uses this word DEEN there (Deenil malik) and translations there will say 'law of king' (check ur self: 12:76) coz really deen includes the system of government.
Islam being a Deen/system logically can't blend into secularism... which says government affairs are seperate from religion(as we saw in definition above).

Must have taken u long to type this bro

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Sorry but i didnt get ur question.
which cases are you referring to?

I mean. What is the punishment for parents who resort to the abortion that isn't permitted?
Is it life for life? Or something less strict, if you know?

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Er.. I'm a bit surprized that you say Quran advocates " federally secular form of state"do you know the meaning of word 'secular'...???
it means "Denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis" and wikipedia says "Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs." so it means religion is a personal thing and it has no role in community... Nation makes whatever law they want, be it by common concensus (democracy) or on whims of a person (a king).... they do what they want and religion is just what's in mosque or in chuch...
how on earth can Islam/Quran advocate that...?? when it has so many aayhas on state laws.. how justice should be served (+ punishments), what to do when someone breaks a treaty with you.... laws on inheritance...

Even the word Islam, means to submit (to what Prophet Muhammad S.A..W brought).. and Allah always calls Islam 'Deen' (not madhab)... deen is a system (includes religious aspects but is more), a way of life; not a religion.... and Islam as a Deen/system wants to be dominant.... Allah tells us "It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion(DEEN) of truth to manifest it over all religion(DEEN), although those who associate others with Allah dislike it." (61:9)
I chose to write 'deen' in the translation coz that is the word used in Quran... (Translations are shalow, what can I do...) If you want proof see Surah Yusuf, Quran uses this word DEEN there (Deenil malik) and translations there will say 'law of king' (check ur self: 12:76) coz really deen includes the system of government.
Islam being a Deen/system logically can't blend into secularism... which says government affairs are seperate from religion(as we saw in definition above).

Hmm... I do think I understood what he meant. We should see beyond encyclopedic definitions into practical application.

Secularism doesn't necessarily mean it has to be against religious teachings. It just means it has to be free of them. The best leader in history, in my opinion, who exemplified this, or should I say epitomized this, was the Mughal Emperor of India, Akbar, centuries back. When he took over India, there were people of different religious groups living there. He was a Muslim, and apparently, a good one as I've read. He could have very well enforced a theocracy, but he didn't. Instead, he remained secular. Because he wanted to show to others that Islam was not a religion of force, but a religion of tolerance. One that respects individual freedom, one that you accept with your heart, out of love for it and not out of fear. And alhamdulillah, by showing how tolerant Islam could be towards other religions (we must note that during those times in other parts of the world the dominant religion would offer either conversion or death to minority ones), he succeeded in drawing more people towards Islam which they embraced because of the values that it preached.

 

[AlphaCentauri]

What ruling? It is the parent's choice to abort their child during the fetus stage. Why on earth should parents be acquitted for that?

When they exceed the stage after which the child has a life/ or a 'rouh' as we'd say in common language, abortion= killing, isn't it? Am talking about that stage.

 

[Borakk]

When they exceed the stage after which the child has a life/ or a 'rouh' as we'd say in common language, abortion= killing, isn't it? Am talking about that stage.

Please tell me how is it the business of the state to oversee such "killing"? So, every pregnant woman should "register" herself with the state who would appoint "guardians" who would check the fetus of every pregnant woman every month to see if it is aborted??!! Why on earth would the state want to punish someone for their willful abortion?

Even if you implement such a system of "punishment" somehow, it would only lead an increase of abortions by illegal unlicenced quack doctors and would put even more lives at risk!

We need to be reasonable and practical. Monitoring the killing of unborn babies, no matter the "stage" is not practical nor reasonable. It is not the business of state to punish people for things which do not harm the society in general. General liberty and freedom, as God wanted, must be maintained.

 

[AngelicBeauty]

By the way, I found this. If my knowledge hasn't depreciated, I think the mosque they are talking about is the Babri mosque?





http://soundvision.com/info/peace/justice.asp

AngelicBeauty, my apologies. Your thread about parents is beautiful. Because of my extreme queries, it has become a panel. Hope you didn't mind it.

no not at all....pls dont apologize.....instead i'm happy that ma thread has become a mean to solving someones queries......carry on ask more