ATTENTION PLEASE -- All Muslim Brothers and Sisters

[Ahmedfj]

well i wrote my point, it got edited or deleted. someone got offended i guess.
still my point is that its perfectly fine and good for a healthy society to establish communication , dialogue in limits with decency, modesty and with keeping in mind the socially accepted moral & ethical values.

MODERATION EDIT: No need to go beyond limits

can u give anyone example where it is necessary to talk to the other gender except for the school and place of work ??

 

[badrobot14]

AsSalam o Alaikum, everyone;
I was thinking about this topic and everyone's views, there are couple of things I want you guys to remember inshaAllah.

1. To some of you Islam may just seem like a list of haram(prohibitions) and halal (permitted stuff)... can't eat that meat, can't do this, can't do that... one day they'll come and say you can't be happy; it's haram to be happy
If you think like that, you need to understand that Islam is not a list or right and wrong, it is complete guidance on how to live life... How to be successful, what does real success mean! (Islam even tells you how to talk ot Allah... ask for stuff, be happy etc.)
Allah (Azzo wa jal) says (what may mean) "How evil an example [is that of] the people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves." (7:177)
wait; who did they wrong? they didnt wrong Allah, they didn’t take anything away from dominion of Allah...When we do haram, when we ABANDON AN OBLIGATION OF ALLAH, or disregard what Allah wants from us we are wronging only our own self!

You may think the right thing to do is this and this but remember a muslim accepts Allah as his Rabb (owner, Lord, sustainer, giver of gifts, master) and knows his Rabb is perfect, who loves us so much that he gave us countless blessings, so whatever He orders is the right thing to do... The perfect example is prophet Ibrahim (AS); after many duas(asking Allah) he gets his beloved son, when the son grows up (the time when a father really cherishes his son) Allah asks him for his son, and this great man is ready to sacrifise his son without questions!
So even if you don't follow a command of Allah don't say "I think this is right thing to do." accept that you are wrong and whatver Allah says is right, try to correct yourselves....
and if you read Quran, Allah really humbles us and puts us in our place: "Cursed is man; how disbelieving is he. From what substance did He create him? From a sperm-drop He created him and destined for him; Then He eased the way for him;..." (Quran 80:17-20 do read the rest of passage)

2. Okay, those of you who are wondering "what, we can't even use smilies!" well xpfmember said it as a cautious muslim... This is something you do after you have taken care of the basics; so first and foremost make sure you don't disobey direct commands of Allah or Prophet (S.A.W):

- Don't touch the opposite gender unless thay are your mahram (“If one of you were to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle, this would be better for him than if he were to touch a woman whom it is not permitted for him to touch.” -saheeh hadith in Tabarani)
- Don't be alone with them ( The Prophet said: “Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third.” -Bukhari)
- Don't look at them (lower your gaze), especially the guys here! (It was narrated that Jareer ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: “I asked the Messenger of Allaah (S.A.W) about a sudden glance, and he commanded me to avert my gaze.” (Narrated by Muslim, 2159) )
- Be regular in your salah ("Recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do." 29:45)
- For the gals here; you may look at a man IF there is no temptation, otherwise you are to lower the gaze as well following the aayah of Quran! (NOT my opinion) But you have to cover yourselves as commanded...

3. Remember if you find difficulty obeying these commands know that Allah never burdens a person more than they can handle (proof) just try your best... As a person grows in Eeman and knowledge it becomes easy for him and he findes the real peace...

Allah knows best.
May Allah help us all and guide us. Ameen.

 

[XPFMember]

AsSalam o Alaikum, everyone;
I was thinking about this topic and everyone's views, there are couple of things I want you guys to remember inshaAllah.
....
Allah knows best.
May Allah help us all and guide us. Ameen.

Waalaikumassalam wr wb!

Simple awesome...mashaAllah! JazakAllahu khairen....

May Allah help us all...!
Aameen!

 

[Dayyanah]

AsSalam o Alaikum, everyone;
I was thinking about this topic and everyone's views, there are couple of things I want you guys to remember inshaAllah.

Allah knows best.
May Allah help us all and guide us. Ameen.

its the most amazing thing i have read!
SubhanAllah.. May Allah increase ur strength.. Ameen

 

[badrobot14]

I voted for: "Yes I think there's nothing wrong in it at all!"

I think the question, in reality was: "Does islam permit you talking to girls?"

Firstly, those with a right wing mindset will say that it is forbidden to talk to women under all circumstances, having gained the view from right-wing hard-line Islamic scholars. These are the same scholars who have forbid everything - science, music, art etc. Without science, without art how are you going to struggle? You've been saying "Beware!" about philosophy. So? Science? "There is no need for science anyway." Art: "Beware!" So what are we to do? Well; "With just enough to keep body and soul together, live in horrible places in sub-ground dwellings. This world is your living Hell. You will be comfortable in the Heaven." For a Muslim both this world and the Hereafter will be like Heaven. Why should this world be a living Hell for a Muslim?.

I seriously don't have time to respond to this baseless non-sense, but I'll try, beiznillah.
Please don't paint the scholars with bad names when you don't know them, Try and learn Quran's tafseer from some knowledeable scholar someday & you'll find out how intelligent they are/were....
Life is NOT a living hell for us (Alhamdulillah) but I do recall that RasoolAllah (SAW) said (al-dunya sijn al-mu’min wa jannah al-kafir) "The world is the believer’s prison and the disbeliever’s Paradise" (Muslim and Tirmidhi)

Prophet (pbuh) used to go to the Sud'Ukaz. There are women there, women who do not cover their chests; and our Prophet(pbuh) was preaching religion to them in that environment. Most of the women were uncovered. For instance the Queen of Sheba comes and speaks with the Prophet Solomon (pbuh), and she even bared her legs to get into the water as she thought that shiny floor paved with glass was water and wanted to get in it. There is a long conversation she had there with the Prophet Solomon (pbuh), they talk to each other. They talk face to face, Prophet Solomon (pbuh) does not turn his back to her. When the Prophet Moses (pbuh) comes across those two ladies mentioned in the Qur'an, what do they say? They say that he is a strong and trustworthy person. They are not wedded to him. (Harun Yahya)

In this case, these right wing bigoted scholars will say that it is forbidden to study books where there are picture of girls, so you cannot study any books of science or business where there is picture of girls. They will say it is forbidden to go to university or college because there are uncovered ladies there. They will say it is permissible for you to beat up your sister if she doesn't cover. So, you cannot study books and go to university? So, internet is haram because we come across all sorts of ads everyday containing pics of girls? So, why are all of you sitting in internet now? Why don't you shut your computer and throw away your laptop because "it is temptation"? Hey, all of you are talking to girls in XPC and many of you might have another girl's Yahoo or Live ID, ain't it? So, why are you all here isn't it haram? What nonsense? How about the Quran which says acquiring knowledge indulging in science and arts is mandatory for every Muslim? How about the Quran which urges to respect democratic rights? How about the Quran which says "there is no compulsion in religion"? The Quran completely rejects all forms of extremism such as this.

Can you provide refrence of the hadith you quoted..? how do I know it's authentic?? and About Queen of Sheba, was she a muslim at that time following our shariah? then how do you take rulings from her??
and you say about scholars " They will say ..." as if you already know what they will say, first ask them of their opinion and then talk! also The scholars I have seen never give rulings from their own will, they hold an opinion based on Quran and Sunnah or on the understanding of early generations of Islam as Prophet (SAW) said “The best of mankind are my generation (or my century), then those who come after them, then those who come after them. Then there will come a people who will not care if their testimony comes before their oath or vice versa (i.e., they will not take such matter seriously).” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Muslim and al-Tirmidhi).
And we follow the prophet (SAW) coz Allah commanded us:
"He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian." (4:80)
And we know Quran is the truth coz of unlimited number of miracles in there...

And about NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION; you need to understand that the aayah is about entering in Islam, it's your choice.. if you do that then there are compulsions and rules of Islam apply on you... If a muslim openly does kufr and doesn't budge even after counselling, in a land with true muslim law, what would the ruler do to him? go find out the verdict from your scholars.... and before you judge Islam, remember this is the ruling in most westeren countries for treason...

Yes, she may not cover her whole body, but this does not mean you tell her to cover. Whether she will cover is her choice and as God says "There is no compulsion in religion". And for those who thinks she has to wear full faced black veil to cover: Nowhere in the quran does it say she has to wear full faced veils. If you avoid a girl because she is not in full face veil (which is not instructed in the Quran), she may get hurt and get a bad impression about you. If she is someone from your workplace or school etc, your relationship may be permanently damaged because of her lousy first impression about you. Does islam permit you to avoid people just like that? Did our prophet (pbuh) avoid people like that and hurt them? Where did you get this nonsense?

If you study the Quran yourself without listening to these reactionary, rightwing scholars, everything will become very clear to you. The priorities will become very clear to you, then you will be able to set priorities like: should I worry about whether I can talk to girls or should I contemplate in science, arts and knowledge etc in order to strengthen my faith in God? Should I worry about whether it is haram to study in school or should I worry about whether I am doing my daily 5 prayers? Again, read the Quran to know your real priorities.

Wow, I think in your ignorance you have just painted some of sahaba as being 'right wing'... As far as I know about the women covering aayah, Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA) was of opinion "except that which [necessarily] appears " is her face and her hands... Abdullah Ibn Masud (RA) said what should appear is just the one eye! (It's a minority opinion but we don't dare call the sahaba names! They are the best generation)

It's not enough to read the Quran but also to understand it... with a pure heart, not with one tainted with desires or a personal agenda....

 

[AlphaCentauri]

I don't think we are here to judge each other. This is Allah's job. So please, let us leave it to Him.

Everything is done with intention, and if the intention is good, then Allah knows best. And if the intention is bad, then only Allah knows.

 

[XPFMember]

assalamoalaikum wr wb!

I don't think we are here to judge each other. This is Allah's job. So please, let us leave it to Him.

Everything is done with intention, and if the intention is good, then Allah knows best. And if the intention is bad, then only Allah knows.

yup true that But we do need to show them what's right and what's not. We do need to make others aware if they're on the wrong. Cuz truth has been made clear..aint it?
But yes, as you said, I cannot give a judgement about any, that yes-XYZ, you'll go to hell......! nopessss! we shouldn't do that, it's Allah's work...
But I rather need to say, XYZ, this is what Allah said, or this is what you should do..etc. you get me?

 

[AlphaCentauri]

assalamoalaikum wr wb!

yup true that But we do need to show them what's right and what's not. We do need to make others aware if they're on the wrong. Cuz truth has been made clear..aint it?
But yes, as you said, I cannot give a judgement about any, that yes-XYZ, you'll go to hell......! nopessss! we shouldn't do that, it's Allah's work...
But I rather need to say, XYZ, this is what Allah said, or this is what you should do..etc. you get me?

Wa a'laikum assalaam wr wb.

Well, yes. But honestly, if it's only for awareness, then I think the thread should've been locked with only your first post and the poll. Of course, you may tell me now that people have the right to ask whatever they wish to clear out, but frankly speaking, the 'discussions' inevitably lead to judgements, and sometimes, to the wrong ones. Because we all know only He knows.

 

[XPFMember]

Wa a'laikum assalaam wr wb.

Well, yes. But honestly, if it's only for awareness, then I think the thread should've been locked with only your first post and the poll. Of course, you may tell me now that people have the right to ask whatever they wish to clear out, but frankly speaking, the 'discussions' inevitably lead to judgements, and sometimes, to the wrong ones. Because we all know only He knows.

Go through the first few pages of the thread, you'd get the answer to that question.

Sadly, we (the youth) don't have much knowledge about our deen. These are small things, which we seem not to care much.
So ofcourse, it'd be a good idea to have a discussion rather than impose something which they seem is impossible, and hard to understand..and then later in life, when they realize they had done wrong, they'd regret why it wasnt clearly explained. WHy didn't we know earlier?
Just my opini0n..but the question that arise in one's mind, etc. I guess all does need to be taken in account. May be a few didn't , but yet there are some who really did look forward to it, Alhumdulilah. And InshaAllah, others too will...
You know sometimes, when someone says something, we seem to ignore and disagree, but may be later after some days or some years, that thing clicks the minds, may be due to some inncident that might happen..Trust me it does happen this way..it did with me, and i believe many others too..
So we can tell them, make them aware...some day or the other they'd surely realize InshaAllah..

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Yes, that's exactly what am saying. The 'discussion' is seeming like an imposition. Is that a democratic way of proceeding? Anyway, me keyboard off here.

 

[XPFMember]

The problem is that many people nowadays do not place their hope and fear in Allaah. They disobey Him by committing all manner of sins, day and night. There are those who are being tested by the idea of regarding sins as insignificant, so you may see one of them regarding certain “minor sins” (saghaa’ir) as inconsequential, so he might say, “What harm can it possibly do if I look at or shake hands with a (non-mahram) woman?” They think nothing of looking at women in magazines and on TV shows. Some of them, when they are told that this is haraam, may even facetiously ask, “So how bad can it be? Is it a major sin (kabeerah) or a minor sin (sagheerah)

Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “You do things which in your eyes are less significant than a hair, but at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), we used to count them as things that could destroy a man.”

Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The believer regards his sin as if he were sitting beneath a mountain which he fears may fall on him, whereas the sinner regards his sin as if a fly lands on his nose and he swipes it away.”

Will these people then understand the seriousness of the matter when they read the following hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? “Beware of the minor sins which are often thought of as insignificant, for they are like a group of people who stopped in the bottom of a valley. One of them brought a stick, and another brought a stick, until they had gathered enough to cook their food. These minor sins, if a person is called to account for them, will destroy him.” According to another report, he said:

“Beware of minor sins, for they will pile up until they destroy a person.” (Reported by Ahmad; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2686-2687).

The scholars said that when minor sins are accompanied by a lack of shame or remorse, and with no fear of Allaah, and are taken lightly, then there is the risk that they will be counted as major sins. Hence it is said that no minor sin is minor if you persist, and no major sin is major if you keep on seeking forgiveness.
So we say to the one who is in this situation:

Do not think about whether the sin is major or minor; think about the One Whom you are disobeying.

In sha Allah, these words will benefit those who are sincere, and who are aware of their sins and shortcomings, and do not insist upon doing wrong and adhering to their faults.
These words are for those who believe in the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning): “Declare (O Muhammad) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.” [al-Hijr 15:49] and in His words “And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment.” [al-Hijr 15:50]. It is essential to keep this balanced view in mind.

Source

The choice is yours. No one is imposing anything, rather just telling whats right and truth. No doubt, we're humans and we make mistakes. Yet, the Quran and Ahadith are free of all lies! And I'm sure you agree to that, alhumdulilah. So, in the light of that, take your decision.
If you've fully decided, you DON'T want to agree, it's your choice. But do think once again. Don't think we're imposing anything. We got no right!

All I can do is pray for everyone...inshaAllah..
Thanks n jazakAllah
Fee Amanillah.

 

[rz123]

I agree, if the Admin calls a post which opposes his view as a "baseless non-sense", it does imply that such debates are not encouraged by the administration itself. In that case, it might be recommended to close the topic itself.

haha take it easy man. this is how this forum runs. the rules say dat its not a secular and a liberal forum. dats the irony dat the administration lacks the vision and qualities of creating a forum open for everyone.

 

[XPFMember]

haha take it easy man. this is how this forum runs. the rules say dat its not a secular and a liberal forum. dats the irony dat the administration lacks the vision and qualities of creating a forum open for everyone.

As if we forced you to come to this thread, and follow this or that...It was your own choice. Wasn't it?
Anyway, may Allah guide us all...and He be pleased with us all...

I feel it's pointless to argue. My post earlier to this one, was precise and said it all...The choice is yours! Wanna follow it (the Islamic ruling about the matter), follow it. If not, don't follow. I don't mind...but kindly don't quote things wrongly about such matters, don't forget this forum isn't viewed by Muslims only...so why wanna take the account of misguiding them by your 'wrong' insights. That'd definitely not be ignored.....cuz it becomes mandatory to correct that...otherwise we may be held account for it too..(may Allah save us all).

So that is it.
wassalam.

 

[rz123]

As if we forced you to come to this thread, and follow this or that...It was your own choice. Wasn't it?
Anyway, may Allah guide us all...and He be pleased with us all...

I feel it's pointless to argue. My post earlier to this one, was precise and said it all...The choice is yours! Wanna follow it (the Islamic ruling about the matter), follow it. If not, don't follow. I don't mind...but kindly don't quote things wrongly about such matters, don't forget this forum isn't viewed by Muslims only...so why wanna take the account of misguiding them by your 'wrong' insights. That'd definitely not be ignored.....cuz it becomes mandatory to correct that...otherwise we may be held account for it too..(may Allah save us all).

So that is it.
wassalam.

hahaha yes everyone is wrong until they agree with your views

 

[XPFMember]

hahaha yes everyone is wrong until they agree with your views

Correction: Allah's laws

 

[rz123]

Correction: Allah's laws

haha yeah ofcourse. and u can never misunderstand Allah's laws. not even by an unintentional mistake.

 

[DANGERBP]

btw you Muslim guyz f8tin like this wont intrest any non Muslim not even abit to get to know this more !
ok nd i know you wont be callin it fightin watever it is
seein you guyz confused yourself makin others confused its kinda step back ward !
just dont argue and let each post whatever they think of !
as my side i wanna look at this wide ! so would like to look at things from both opposite views nd would totally apreciate it
if who ever keeps deletin points which he/she thinks arent leadin to the r8 path to stop !
let us c it by our own nd choose the path which we agree more with !
thankful !
lol anyways this came kinda too late ! =p lol watever

 

[XPFMember]

btw you Muslim guyz f8tin like this wont intrest any non Muslim not even abit to get to know this more !
ok nd i know you wont be callin it fightin watever it is
seein you guyz confused yourself makin others confused its kinda step back ward !
just dont argue and let each post whatever they think of !
as my side i wanna look at this wide ! so would like to look at things from both opposite views nd would totally apreciate it
if who ever keeps deletin points which he/she thinks arent leadin to the r8 path to stop !
let us c it by our own nd choose the path which we agree more with !
thankful !
lol anyways this came kinda too late ! =p lol watever

none of the posts were deleted rather, a sensible reply was made to it sensible as in, what Allah says or what the Quran says...!
oh mashaAllah..may Allah give you the correct insight Aameen...

 

[DANGERBP]

none of the posts were deleted rather, a sensible reply was made to it sensible as in, what Allah says or what the Quran says...!
oh mashaAllah..may Allah give you the correct insight Aameen...

ok gr8 then if you say so !

nd thx for that !

 

[AlphaCentauri]

Goodness. Stop that.

The poll is something as obvious as this:
Do you think you can talk to the members of the opposite sex for fun, time pass etc? [Be honest]

Lol. I want to change my vote, because reading your discussions here, I completely forgot what the poll is talking about and voted based on your discussions. It's like everybody's urge to prove their points has completely silenced the poor voiceless poll above, and I am sure, like me, many voted for the wrong option if they first read the comments.

"Fun" and "time pass" may not have clear meanings for all of us. I vote for "no" because I interpret that as flirtatious talking to the opposite sex and using him or her as object of entertainment just to fill in the time one has to spare. In 100% obviousness, this is reserved for people who ought get some life, for people who have neither respect nor concern for others, and plenty of time to throw in the garbage bin.

Now, that is my judgment. Someone else may interpret "fun" and "time pass" as "Hello brother/ Hello sister", the sort of thing you find in convents and nunneries. For them, that may be "enjoyment". That's their interpretation of the poll. We are not to charge them for that.

I still fail to understand which rocket-fly-path the discussion took to come to such an extremity.

Now, we come to those discussions leading to 'judgements'. Honestly, discussing about religion is a dangerous thing to do unless you are very sure about yourself and your approach. Else, inevitably, i.n.e.v.i.t.a.b.l.y. it leads to biased judgements and we may end up doing what we did not initially intend to, to the extreme case, we may end up through biased judgements doing the whole contrary of what we intended to. Instead of bringing people closer to Allah, we may drive them away from Him. That is why, please, be a lot careful.

I am not posting it to ask you to stop doing whatever that you've embarked on. I am trying, in my own way, to make a constructive criticism to ask to be more careful about that which you are doing.
See this:

I seriously don't have time to respond to this baseless non-sense, but I'll try, beiznillah.

In sha Allah, these words will benefit those who are sincere, and who are aware of their sins and shortcomings, and do not insist upon doing wrong and adhering to their faults.

Unintentional perhaps, but these are forms of implicit judgement, and being members of a staff, you should be the one discouraging that. I assume we are all mature enough-- enough that we do not have to pretend otherwise-- to know how to read between the lines and understand implications. It isn't the proper way to convince people of the validity of your arguments.

May Allah guide us all.
I'd appreciate if you'd give members the ability to change their votes. Thank you.