Dharna or no dharna???!!!

[Wkhan860]

Lol ur so desperate fr getting cmbaks tht ur brain has stopped understanding wht I mean.....I hv not evn said tht I'm backing zia.....I srsly thnk u need a break....u seem preety weak in understanding wht I was sayng...I'll say it again :/
I said tht IK is the best option fr now....if. Not him thn martial law must be declared nd free nd fair elections must be held within 90 days....cux any elections held evn under a care taker govt will be rigged...k?
Secondly on ur part of misdeeds nd mistakes of army......indeed the laal masjid incident,Black September,murder of Bugti nd sm role in separation if Bengal was a mistake....but can u tell me tht evn one army leader died as a millionaire or was living a luxurious lyf....or lyk our so called democratic leaders did thy hav 600 billion in their Swiss account...or owners of surrey palace?
No, there are no accounts of any army leader filling his pockets wth our money....the corruption scandals during democracy were more thn any army period

 

[Wkhan860]

It's the army tht hav been saving our asses fr so long......whereas our democratic rulers are adamant on declaring India favourite nation.....a country who only wants our destruction.
U havnt been able to voice ur arguments properly...the point ur trying to put here is tht army shuldnt rule their country...I cmpletely agree wth u if thts the case...army is only fr protecting lives of ppl....but wht if the leaders of country are not able to save their country dignity
Zia ,Musharraf nd Ayub all three if thn are responsible fr damage in our country to a certain degree....but the damage these democratic leader hav brought us can't be matched.

 

[Nibz]

Free and Fair elections under Martial Law? Yeah, sure, in our dreams.

No, because they already live a luxurious life, and have secured this luxurious lifestyle after retirement well in advance. Don't forget , the army gets almost 70% of our budget, and for what? Don't we have nuclear weapons that should be enough to scare away any nation?
And to understand the army's involvement in our economics, you should read Military Incorporated by Ayesha Siddiqa.

 

[Nibz]

It's the army tht hav been saving our asses fr so long......whereas our democratic rulers are adamant on declaring India favourite nation.....a country who only wants our destruction.
U havnt been able to voice ur arguments properly...the point ur trying to put here is tht army shuldnt rule their country...I cmpletely agree wth u if thts the case...army is only fr protecting lives of ppl....but wht if the leaders of country are not able to save their country dignity
Zia ,Musharraf nd Ayub all three if thn are responsible fr damage in our country to a certain degree....but the damage these democratic leader hav brought us can't be matched.

Indeed. But you should never forget that these leaders came into power because of army.
In some cases, people were so sick of army's rule that they protested violently in favour of the alternative, no matter how pathetic that alternative was.
And in other cases, the army leaders themselves appointed 'democratic' leaders that later exploited our country.

 

[Wkhan860]

Ur rgt there...but wht abt present case.....who wuld believe tht a person famous fr his corruption gets elected as our president???
We hv tried ths current leaders enough...do u thnk tht the current position we r in could be any worse if army wuld hav hld elections
Nd in reply of ur cmmnt if 70% of budget goes to army....bro do u disagree to the fact tht thy are sacrificing our lives fr us???thy are fighting in siachen...surviving in siachen, fighting at Afghanistan border???wht Taliban....in ballochistan,against India...everywhere???thy need ths budget to fight fr our country

 

[Wkhan860]

Nd bro can the misdeeds nd corruption charges against ths democratic leaders...can thy match ths against army..No
I'm not against democracy...but I believe ths is not democracy...ths is infact a glimpse of martial law itself.....i dnt support martial law but is ths rele democracy?
Ppl are being killed without any reason....current democracy or so called democracy is no way reflection of democracy quaid wanted....nd I believe whch is my opinion..nd it can be wrong or right tht army rule will be btr thn current rule of democracy or tht of zardaris rule,...ths ppl hav hurt our self esteem.Its just a perception...but ths my believe

 

[Glory Hunter]

ok guyx stop it
This thread is getting heated up and its of no use in the first place as if by our discussions Pakistan will change

 

[Nibz]

Ur rgt there...but wht abt present case.....who wuld believe tht a person famous fr his corruption gets elected as our president???
We hv tried ths current leaders enough...do u thnk tht the current position we r in could be any worse if army wuld hav hld elections
Nd in reply of ur cmmnt if 70% of budget goes to army....bro do u disagree to the fact tht thy are sacrificing our lives fr us???thy are fighting in siachen...surviving in siachen, fighting at Afghanistan border???wht Taliban....in ballochistan,against India...everywhere???thy need ths budget to fight fr our country

I am not in favour of Bhuttos and Sharifs at all. But if there is even a little development towards a real democracy, with army back in power, that little development would be overturned, and we will have to start from scratch again. Because once a one-man has all the power to veto or implement anything, no matter how saint and sinless he is, he is bound to be exploited by that power. I don't want that to happen.

You are right. They deserve every penny of that, and even more than that. But they don't get any. And they do not have to die. But they die at the cost of the higher command (and there may be only a bunch of officers who'd be the real culprits), just so the 70% budget allocation is justified.

And this is just my opinion from reading various materials in favour of and against the role of army in our country's politics.

 

[Glory Hunter]

Free and Fair elections under Martial Law? Yeah, sure, in our dreams.

No, because they already live a luxurious life, and have secured this luxurious lifestyle after retirement well in advance. Don't forget , the army gets almost 70% of our budget, and for what? Don't we have nuclear weapons that should be enough to scare away any nation?
And to understand the army's involvement in our economics, you should read Military Incorporated by Ayesha Siddiqa.

luxurious life lol over there u are totally wrong fighting for our country aftr retirement they shld get these type of facilities and ya how can you say a person fighting for your country is ghaddar cmon ur making fun of ur own country

 

[Nibz]

ok guyx stop it
This thread is getting heated up and its of no use in the first place as if by our discussions Pakistan will change

A healthy discussion is better than anything. And it can change if its population is educated and learned enough to differentiate the wrongs from rights.

 

[Nibz]

luxurious life lol over there u are totally wrong fighting for our country aftr retirement they shld get these type of facilities and ya how can you say a person fighting for your country is ghaddar cmon ur making fun of ur own country

When have I ever said that they are ghaddars. They are following the orders from the higher command officers who do not engage in those fights.
And I'm not talking about the current leadership either because I haven't read anything against them. I'm talking about the history of military leadership, and it is not pretty, not as much as it's portrayed to us at least.

P.S You don't fight for your country just so you get to live a luxurious life. You fight because there is no better way to show your patriotism for your country.

 

[Glory Hunter]

A healthy discussion is better than anything. And it can change if its population is educated and learned enough to differentiate the wrongs from rights.

its not healthy discussion more of alike u guyx are jst trying to prove u r right healthy discussions are more of a like u listen to others and accept their views

 

[Glory Hunter]

When have I ever said that they are ghaddars. They are following the orders from the higher command officers who do not engage in those fights.
And I'm not talking about the current leadership either because I haven't read anything against them. I'm talking about the history of military leadership, and it is not pretty, not as much as it's portrayed to us at least.

P.S You don't fight for your country just so you get to live a luxurious life. You fight because there is no better way to show your patriotism for your country.

actually for instance you are in a working for a company for 40 years and in the end when u take retirement they give u nothing thats dumb and job is just a normal post, serving your country u shld evn get more thn jst luxurious house and cars for stupid politicians u give them all protocol and the one who in real served for your country giving them nothing and counting on how much you waste on them please just see politicians it takes about millions to do one jalsa no one counts that money and when you give money to a person who served you everyone counts that

 

[Wkhan860]

No man it's not lyk tht....u r partly rgt tht the higher command uses the soldiers but dnt frget tht thy got to tht position by fighting in wars too....thy also suffered nd thn only thy got to tht position....but yeah once thy get there sm of thm loose their mynd.
U wuld knw tht in parliament most if parliamentarians accuse army fr carrying atrocities nd fr and dharma or jalsa thy frst point at army tht thy want to de stabilize the govt....it's not lyk tht every tym
As far as I knw no army leader came just fr power..thy came bcx if situation at tht tym
Pak was I desperate situation whn both Ayub nd zia came....but it was wrong tht thy remained in power fr so long...evn if their is a martial law there objective shuld be to bring stability in short tym nd hold an election within 90 days whch is in constitution as well.
But u won't deny tht the quality nd will of any democratic leader now isn't tht encouraging....apart frm IK ofc

 

[Glory Hunter]

No man it's not lyk tht....u r partly rgt tht the higher command uses the soldiers but dnt frget tht thy got to tht position by fighting in wars too....thy also suffered nd thn only thy got to tht position....but yeah once thy get there sm of thm loose their mynd.
U wuld knw tht in parliament most if parliamentarians accuse army fr carrying atrocities nd fr and dharma or jalsa thy frst point at army tht thy want to de stabilize the govt....it's not lyk tht every tym
As far as I knw no army leader came just fr power..thy came bcx if situation at tht tym
Pak was I desperate situation whn both Ayub nd zia came....but it was wrong tht thy remained in power fr so long...evn if their is a martial law there objective shuld be to bring stability in short tym nd hold an election within 90 days whch is in constitution as well.
But u won't deny tht the quality nd will of any democratic leader now isn't tht encouraging....apart frm IK ofc

actually i amnt going in teachnical terms but what all i am sayin is army get least protocols and thts totally wrong in parliament u r standing and sayin kay un logon ki ayshouyn par hum paisa kharch kartay hain thts insane u r making joke of ur country

 

[Nibz]

actually i amnt going in teachnical terms but what all i am sayin is army get least protocols and thts totally wrong in parliament u r standing and sayin kay un logon ki ayshouyn par hum paisa kharch kartay hain thts insane u r making joke of ur country

You are not serious, are you?
They have separate places to live in (2 entire sectors for navy and airforce alone in Islamabad) where civilians aren't even allowed to enter without proper entry registration. And 70% budget allocation is too damn much, when more than half of your country is living under the poverty line.

 

[Nibz]

No man it's not lyk tht....u r partly rgt tht the higher command uses the soldiers but dnt frget tht thy got to tht position by fighting in wars too....thy also suffered nd thn only thy got to tht position....but yeah once thy get there sm of thm loose their mynd.
U wuld knw tht in parliament most if parliamentarians accuse army fr carrying atrocities nd fr and dharma or jalsa thy frst point at army tht thy want to de stabilize the govt....it's not lyk tht every tym
As far as I knw no army leader came just fr power..thy came bcx if situation at tht tym
Pak was I desperate situation whn both Ayub nd zia came....but it was wrong tht thy remained in power fr so long...evn if their is a martial law there objective shuld be to bring stability in short tym nd hold an election within 90 days whch is in constitution as well.
But u won't deny tht the quality nd will of any democratic leader now isn't tht encouraging....apart frm IK ofc

Wars for British, if you recall. Both Ayub and Zia were in the British Army once.

 

[Glory Hunter]

You are not serious, are you?
They have separate places to live in (2 entire sectors for navy and airforce alone in Islamabad) where civilians aren't even allowed to enter without proper entry registration. And 70% budget allocation is too damn much, when more than half of your country is living under the poverty line.

thats my point you are saying that 70% budget allocation for them y dont u count our politicians each one of them will have a bigger place to live and what are they doing for our country every1 knows

 

[Wkhan860]

thats my point you are saying that 70% budget allocation for them y dont u count our politicians each one of them will have a bigger place to live and what are they doing for our country every1 knows

Absolutely rgt bro

 

[Nibz]

thats my point you are saying that 70% budget allocation for them y dont u count our politicians each one of them will have a bigger place to live and what are they doing for our country every1 knows

So, you are saying that if politicians are doing something wrong, the army should too?
Come on, man. That's not a good way of thinking. The world is no longer a battlefield like it was some 50 years ago. And countries are not suicidal to attack a nuclear power like Pakistan.